The victims of bigotry, Affirmative Action (so called Black empowerment) and primarily anti- white race hate. The plight of South Africa's Afrikaner community continues to go unreported.
The victims of bigotry, Affirmative Action (so called Black empowerment) and primarily anti- white race hate.
This is a very strange statement from a blog like this.
Surely according to people like you the differences in outcome in terms of things like poverty, wealth, unemployment, etc are due to innate ethnic and cultural characteristics not racism.
For example, let's say a report came out in Britain noting that the unemployment rate among black men was significantly higher than among white men. Would be unfair to say you would interpret this as evidence that black people are lazy, stupid or otherwise uninterested in seeking gainful employment rather than arguing it's because of racism in the labour market?
Therefore, if large numbers of Afrikaner people are destitute the only consistent line of argument you can take is that they are in some way inferior to other 'races' or ethnic groups.
I can reject this line of argument as I don't think ethnicity and supposed racial differences explain very much at all about different outcomes at a micro or a macro level.
Of course, there's always the conclusion that your arguments are not consistent in the slightest and you would apply different standards to, say, black people who live in poverty and white people who live in poverty.
Also, the median annual income for black working adults is around 13,000 Rand. The median annual income for white working adults is around 65,000 Rand.
Who is really getting a raw deal in the new South Africa again?
The current government is to blame for the current situation. That cannot be argued.
Their bigotry and racism remains unchallenged in a world where the pursars find it easier to manipulate the ignorant for financial gain.
I watched it approach all the way down from upper central Africa to my own country. Then I watched as the world's pursars forced us to hand over what we had built to those who were waiting for the handout.
It was certainly easier for the powers that be to be seen to do "the right thing" in someone else's back yard.
My concern is that this is where the bigger picture lies and greater deceptions are at work beneath the covers of political correctness and human rights only for those who are deemed worthy by their non-European descent.
Now I watch as my new country embraces multiculturalism as a glorious thing...blissfully unaware of the rod they are making for our children's backs.
The ignorant masses in africa view it as rightous retribution to see poor whites suffering.
What they refuse to see is that they had nothing to start with without the foundation that the white settlers provided.
You can't have it both ways. If you don't want the whites, "Here's your spear and skins and there's the bush, you can take what you came with".
Are you now denying that innate ethnic and cultural differences influence macro and micro level outcomes?
I obviously deny the validity of that claim but I have a totally different point of view to you.
You do realise that rules out you endorsing statements like 'poverty and underdevelopment in the third world has happened because of the people who live there' or 'the reason that much of the useful inventions that we use everyday were developed in Europe or America is because of the specific characteristics of European peoples' and sentiments along those lines?
Mick, in the comment above, obviously doesn't understand this, he's claiming that all that's good and wholesome in South Africa came from white settlers!
I don't think you realise, or fully appreciate, the implications of what you've said.
I also don't think ideas of 'racial survival' even make sense. Firstly because I don't subscribe to the notion of racial groups and ethnic identity as unchanging social facts (which you evidently do) and, secondly, because this notion applied to Afrikaner people is particularly incoherent.
What needs preserved? The Afrikaner people of today has little in common with the Afrikaner people of 50 years ago, even less in common than the people calling themselves Afrikaner 100 years and 150 years ago it's difficult to even talk of an 'Afrikaner' people at all. The story of their creation is fascinating though. Did you know the first book written in Afrikaans was the Koran for instance?
However, the difference is that it is only the poverty of the whites in South Africa whose situation results from official, deliberate, government policy.
Why do blacks in SA live in poverty then? Is it nothing to do government policy?
When answering this please bear in mind that you've already ruled out answers that involve appeals to their supposed innate ethnic characteristics, i.e. notions that they are lazy, stupid, inferior, etc.
No other group is officially denied employment, food or accommodation because of their race. whilst the world completely ignores it.
I smiled when I read this in conjuction with your remark about my 'ignorance'!
As I've mentioned, I don't think 'race' is a useful concept but there are multiple examples of people who happen to have had the misfortune of being born into a different ethnic group to the rest of the nation being denied these things and more.
Here's three examples to get you started: Karen people in Burma, Tamils in Sri Lanka, Roma people in Romania. There are many, many more examples from contemporary times and recent history. I can't blame you for not knowing about them though, as you've said the world completely ignores so many of them!
One final question, have you ever even been to South Africa?
It is because many\most whites think like Duncan and reject race and race differences that I believe white nationalism is pursuing a false path by seeking change thru political means.
Duncan is wrong in that race and racial differences do exist and are important. To Duncan I would suggest that all the competitors in the 2012 100m Olympic Final will be of West African origin.
I will also state that people of African origin cannot build or even maintain a technological society anyway near that which Europeans can. Duncan, please offer examples if you think i am wrong.
Sarah why do nationalists wish to urge Duncan and those who feel like him to join us? Duncan is happy with his worldview and I wish him good luck - with one caveat...do not persecute nationalists and let us get on with building our own societies and preserving our kind.
And the latter is what nationalists should be doing.
Duncan there are many reasons why there is mass, and rapidly growing, poverty amongst the black population of South Africa, and part of it is certainly down to incompetence and corruption on the part of the current South African Government, however, that is an entirely different matter.
The main difference is that the poverty amongst the white Afrikaner population is not a knock on result of something else, it has been created through deliberate government policy. It is not an inconvenient side effect of bad government it is a deliberate and declared government policy, which the cojone deficient West pretend not to notice, or worse tacitly support.
When governments take action against other ethnic groups such as the Tamils or the Roma, there is, quite rightly, and international outcry, but when it is the white South African Afrikaner people there is total silence. The explanation for that has to be racism, the sort of racism you support.
As to the rest of your somewhat contradictory contribution (“there's no ethnic identity” “the Roma are a different ethnic group”) you may not subscribe to the notion of racial groups and ethnic identity, (you trendy, right on old thing you) but that is just further evidence of your deliberate ignorance. In terms of DNA there is less difference between a man an a woman than there is for instance between an African man and a European man, or an African man and an Asian man. Odd therefore that nobody suggests that sex is a social construct.
Furthermore the UN don't seem to agree with you either given the actions they have taken to protect the rights of indigenous people, unless the indigenous people are white of course.
Interestingly, from your perspective there can be no such thing as genocide, just mass murder, I wonder how you rationalise that with your politics?
"Duncan" seems a little heavy on the ad hominems and adds a couple of anecdotal examples, but almost zero opinions.
His few debating points lack clarity and precision, and they appear circuitous in direction that led me to "drop-off" points that left me scratching my head.
Ah! I just quickly scanned his defunct blog before ending this note....
O.K....we're at opposite ends of the political spectrum...understood now!
When governments take action against other ethnic groups such as the Tamils or the Roma, there is, quite rightly, and international outcry
I notice you missed out the Karen people, which was one of my three examples.
I've yet to see any significant international outcry about what happened in Sri Lanka. During the final stages of the civil war government forces killed many thousands of Tamil civilians and displaced around 300,000 people, most of who were detained in camps against their will for the next year.
I believe the UN released a statement saying they were 'troubled' by this. Other countries actually sent congratulations to the Sri Lankan government!
If you think this is equivalent to what has happened to Afrikaner people in South Africa you are severely mistaken.
A lack of international outcry (even if what you say is happening to Afrikaners is happening) is not unique or even, in my opinion, a significant departure from the norm.
As to the rest of your somewhat contradictory contribution (“there's no ethnic identity” “the Roma are a different ethnic group”)
I think the problem here is you basically don't understand what I'm saying and so don't understand my argument.
For example, you've put “there's no ethnic identity” in quotation marks which implies that's something I'd written and a view I subscribe to and then taken a view I do agree with to imply there's a contradiction there. I don't know whether you did this deliberately or this is simply because you don't understand what my view is.
What I wrote was: I don't subscribe to the notion of racial groups and ethnic identity as unchanging social facts.
This is why I have no problem describing genocide as genocide to clear up that one.
I would guess you view ethnic identity as unchanging social facts and that certain ethnic group inherently have certain characteristics so we can explain different outcomes at a macro and micro level (why African people cannot sustain a European style technological society - as remarked above) with reference to people's supposed race and culture.
I asked you straightforwardly whether you endorse that particular claim, answering this would make this discussion much easier, but you have not.
Until 50 years ago this was a common view. 100 years ago it was the dominant scientific view.
However, in the same way that it's no longer tenable to be sceptical of the possibilities of heavier than air flying machines this view has been discredited by volumes of research done on ethnicity and identity in the 20th century.
I think it makes a lot more sense to look at the way ethnic identity is created and changes over time. Anyway, that's a much longer story and this is already a lengthy comment.
Ethnic identities are not static but have a constantly changing meaning. What it means to be an Afrikaner in 2010 is totally different to what it meant in 1950, 1900, etc. This is why I think ideas of 'racial survival/preservation' are incoherent. What exactly are you preserving?
Furthermore the UN don't seem to agree with you either
As a once avid reader of blogger "Jayne Gardener" before she was either forced to, or voluntarily removed her truth-telling blog, she was often "assaulted" by Jewish attack groups during her latter days of blogging.
These little foot-soldiers would regularly manoeuver her to a defensive position by disputing the most innocuous debating point -- not to prove their thesis -- but with the sinister intention of depleting her energy with minutiae.
Duncan said: “I notice you missed out the Karen people, which was one of my three examples.”
I also didn't mention the people of Tibet, the Chinese Uyghurs, the Ndebele (Matabele) or the Bushmen of Botswana – and, interestingly, neither did you. Like the Afrikaner their plight was also the result of deliberate government policy, however, does that mean I can't mention one group in isolation, would it okay with you for me to mention the Afrikaner provided I also list the Uyghurs, the Bahá'ís, The Kurds and the Falun Gong (or are religious minorities exempt from your packaging requirements?)
Or am I misunderstanding your strictures, is one not permitted to draw attention to one persecuted group whilstr others are being persecuted elsewhere? In that case, people had better shut up about Gaza hadn't they?
Duncan said: “I've yet to see any significant international outcry about what happened in Sri Lanka.”
Then I suggest Dunan my dear you were not looking. Parliament Square was almost impassible for months.
Duncan “During the final stages of the civil war government forces killed many thousands of Tamil civilians and displaced around 300,000 people, most of who were detained in camps against their will for the next year.”
That is around 300,000 less than the number of Afrikaners who have been displaced and now live in camps (see the report I linked to in the posting). They are effectively held against their will with no release date given they have nowhere to go, the South African government denies them the means of freeing themselves and no western country would dare take them, because people like you would accuse them of racism.
Duncan “I believe the UN released a statement saying they were 'troubled' by this. Other countries actually sent congratulations to the Sri Lankan government!”
The Metro obviously got it wrong with their headline “UN condemns Sri Lanka 'bloodbath'” last month then? http://www.metro.co.uk/news/world/655786-un-condemns-sri-lanka-bloodbath
Duncan “If you think this is equivalent to what has happened to Afrikaner people in South Africa you are severely mistaken.”
It is true that government forces have not yet opened fire on Afrikaner camps, however, with around 600,000 displaced and living in camps, whilst thousands have been murdered (over 3,100 Afrikaner farmer's alone) since 1994, many of whom were horribly tortured to death, that is very close to an equivalence, and if you were not in denial you would admit it.
Duncan said: “A lack of international outcry (even if what you say is happening to Afrikaners is happening) is not unique or even, in my opinion, a significant departure from the norm.”
I regret I don't agree with you, I believe, that the lack of international reaction is a direct result of the colour combination of oppressor and oppressed. I don't think it is the norm, and even if it was I am not cynical enough to believe that is a reason to ignore what is happening.
Duncan: “I think the problem here is you basically don't understand what I'm saying and so don't understand my argument.”
I think the truth is Duncan you are the one who doesn't understand, it is you who will not allow any thought or concept to penetrate your box if it doesn't comply with your predetermined view of what is good and bad, right and wrong. Evil white victimised black.
Duncan: “What I wrote was: I don't subscribe to the notion of racial groups and ethnic identity as unchanging social facts.”
I don't think I misrepresented you at all Duncan, despite yore weasel words, I think you are a “race is a social construct” zealot. You speak as if what is currently happening in the Western World is some natural phenomenon rather than the result of a deliberate political policy intended to fundamentally alter the ethnic make up of the West and there is nothing natural about that.
I suspect that you care deeply about the persecution of ethnic minorities, except when the minority is white, and then you don't give a toss.
Duncan “I have no problem describing genocide as genocide to clear up that one.”
I strongly doubt that sweetheart, I suspect you would crawl up your own rectum rather than admit that what is happening in South Africa is genocide, but it is genocide, and that will eventually be acknowledged.
Duncan: “I would guess you view ethnic identity as unchanging social facts and that certain ethnic group inherently have certain characteristics so we can explain different outcomes at a macro and micro level (why African people cannot sustain a European style technological society - as remarked above) with reference to people's supposed race and culture.
I asked you straightforwardly whether you endorse that particular claim, answering this would make this discussion much easier, but you have not.”
Duncan, I said in my first response to you that I do not advocate racial supremacy, I believe in racial difference and the right of racial preservation. I have no idea why Africans have never achieved the technological and cultural advances which Europeans have, why when we were inventing the internal combustion engine, rail travel and flushing toilets most of Africa had not developed beyond the stone age. I do not know why there has never yet been an example of sustained and successful black government. It is self evidently a fact, but I can not explain it other than by the indisputable truth that there are distinct racial differences.
The evidence of those differences is so huge and manifest, that they render your assertion that there are no ethnic, racial and cultural differences worth preserving, nonsensical and indeed laughable.
Duncan “Me and the UN don't agree on a lot of things!”
That figures
It has been interesting corresponding with you but I will now take the wise advice of Anon 12:33, and bring this exchange to an end. You are welcome to express your view, but I regret that I do not have the time to respond to all comments.
Over the past centuries Africans in their free spirited way, merely opted to reject such man made commercialized frippery as railways and flushing toilets.
In fact from my last visit to Durban it seems they still reject flushing toilets. Its rather like Detroit in that respect..... along with the violence, corruption murder and rape of course.
Well I think the Lady from Albion got the better of that exchange eh Duncan! What a shame he took that strong Scottish name when he writes such muddled, mistaken tripe.
In the UK white people at all varying layers of authority fall over themselves to help the black population.
In SA, blacks run the system and are happy to overtly discriminate against whites.
You cant see a difference?
In a free for all, Ive no doubt that whites in SA could (will!)turn things around. But how are they to do that. Any institution they set up will be co-opted by the state. Charities, co-ops you name it. Anything successful, too visible is going to have diversity mandated upon it.
You must have noticed that in the UK. Thats while we are still a majority, nominally in charge. Just imagine a state where we are a minority and out side the political system.
And needless to say anything more serious, armed rebellion, insurrection what have you is not going to be crushed by SA on its own. It would be done with the full backing of the outside world. Nothing is too violent to defeat 'racsits' and 'nazis' and 'white supremacists' after all.
I've yet to see any significant international outcry about what happened in Sri Lanka.
Yes, thats a shame.
From a WN perspective I fully support the Tamils in their quest for a homeland in Sri Lanka. I hope they dont hypocritically deny us the same.
If one trawls the net one will find many neo-con types dont support the Tamils because they are 'terrorists'. They seem to have been cast in the role of the Palestinians vs Israel.
This means they are the bad guys and if 'we' want to stand against terror the Tamils are supposed to be flushed down the toilet.
These little foot-soldiers would regularly manoeuver her to a defensive position by disputing the most innocuous debating point -- not to prove their thesis -- but with the sinister intention of depleting her energy with minutiae.
Jeez, tell me about it!
Ive recently begun debating the left/liberal/anti-racist orcs on Facebook.
Its great fun some of the time, shooting fish in a barrel. But unfortunately not many of our guys & girls want to play that game. Im often on my own trying beat down two or three nitpickers on a thread. While they signally fail to address the core issues.
Still feel its worth doing though. If only to remind them that they havent won yet.
When I started blogging there were few political blogs and even fewer left political blogs and even fewer left political blogs without rubbish politics.
Good to to see your tacit admission there, the one about your blog having rubbish politics. Nice one!
That is just awful! We need to get practical assistance to these people, like the blog that formed a charity for Serb victims of UCK terror gangs in Kosovo Province. Please tell us if you find anyone doing this or willing to assist.
"What needs preserved? The Afrikaner people of today has little in common with the Afrikaner people of 50 years ago, even less in common than the people calling themselves Afrikaner 100 years and 150 years ago it's difficult to even talk of an 'Afrikaner' people at all. ...."
Your opinion regarding the Afrikaner people of today and 50, 100 to 150 years ago, is misleading and highly flawed as is invariably always the case in relation to Marxist Liberal ideology and the deliberately false interpretations AND misrepresentations of truth which its adherents are programmed into propagating and propagandanising on the global stage.
Correctly speaking, the Afrikaner people over time, have expanded AND adapted their original culture up to the present times which is a natural development every race has in common, but genetically (racially) speaking, they are still the same people.
Furthermore, culture may be fluent, but race is not.
Only, where members of distinct races have miscegenated with members of others, those members are then no longer fully one nor the other of the original two involved. They become, in fact, a separate race or races.
The victims of bigotry, Affirmative Action (so called Black empowerment) and primarily anti- white race hate. The plight of South Africa's Afrikaner community continues to go unreported.
Reduced to living on charity hand outs
23 comments:
The victims of bigotry, Affirmative Action (so called Black empowerment) and primarily anti- white race hate.
This is a very strange statement from a blog like this.
Surely according to people like you the differences in outcome in terms of things like poverty, wealth, unemployment, etc are due to innate ethnic and cultural characteristics not racism.
For example, let's say a report came out in Britain noting that the unemployment rate among black men was significantly higher than among white men. Would be unfair to say you would interpret this as evidence that black people are lazy, stupid or otherwise uninterested in seeking gainful employment rather than arguing it's because of racism in the labour market?
Therefore, if large numbers of Afrikaner people are destitute the only consistent line of argument you can take is that they are in some way inferior to other 'races' or ethnic groups.
I can reject this line of argument as I don't think ethnicity and supposed racial differences explain very much at all about different outcomes at a micro or a macro level.
Of course, there's always the conclusion that your arguments are not consistent in the slightest and you would apply different standards to, say, black people who live in poverty and white people who live in poverty.
Also, the median annual income for black working adults is around 13,000 Rand. The median annual income for white working adults is around 65,000 Rand.
Who is really getting a raw deal in the new South Africa again?
Sarah
You make it clear that this material poverty is due to SA government policy - a fact that Duncan ignores.
If these people were allowed to create and build a proper life for themselves, they would again show others how it can be done.
The essence of the human spirit is to strive, unfettered by the political correctness of its particular age.
We need to regroup, set our own goals and achieve independence of spirit for ourselves once more.
It's been done in the past.
We shall do it again.
The current government is to blame for the current situation. That cannot be argued.
Their bigotry and racism remains unchallenged in a world where the pursars find it easier to manipulate the ignorant for financial gain.
I watched it approach all the way down from upper central Africa to my own country. Then I watched as the world's pursars forced us to hand over what we had built to those who were waiting for the handout.
It was certainly easier for the powers that be to be seen to do "the right thing" in someone else's back yard.
My concern is that this is where the bigger picture lies and greater deceptions are at work beneath the covers of political correctness and human rights only for those who are deemed worthy by their non-European descent.
Now I watch as my new country embraces multiculturalism as a glorious thing...blissfully unaware of the rod they are making for our children's backs.
The ignorant masses in africa view it as rightous retribution to see poor whites suffering.
What they refuse to see is that they had nothing to start with without the foundation that the white settlers provided.
You can't have it both ways. If you don't want the whites, "Here's your spear and skins and there's the bush, you can take what you came with".
Sarah,
What an incredible comment.
Are you now denying that innate ethnic and cultural differences influence macro and micro level outcomes?
I obviously deny the validity of that claim but I have a totally different point of view to you.
You do realise that rules out you endorsing statements like 'poverty and underdevelopment in the third world has happened because of the people who live there' or 'the reason that much of the useful inventions that we use everyday were developed in Europe or America is because of the specific characteristics of European peoples' and sentiments along those lines?
Mick, in the comment above, obviously doesn't understand this, he's claiming that all that's good and wholesome in South Africa came from white settlers!
I don't think you realise, or fully appreciate, the implications of what you've said.
I also don't think ideas of 'racial survival' even make sense. Firstly because I don't subscribe to the notion of racial groups and ethnic identity as unchanging social facts (which you evidently do) and, secondly, because this notion applied to Afrikaner people is particularly incoherent.
What needs preserved? The Afrikaner people of today has little in common with the Afrikaner people of 50 years ago, even less in common than the people calling themselves Afrikaner 100 years and 150 years ago it's difficult to even talk of an 'Afrikaner' people at all. The story of their creation is fascinating though. Did you know the first book written in Afrikaans was the Koran for instance?
However, the difference is that it is only the poverty of the whites in South Africa whose situation results from official, deliberate, government policy.
Why do blacks in SA live in poverty then? Is it nothing to do government policy?
When answering this please bear in mind that you've already ruled out answers that involve appeals to their supposed innate ethnic characteristics, i.e. notions that they are lazy, stupid, inferior, etc.
No other group is officially denied employment, food or accommodation because of their race. whilst the world completely ignores it.
I smiled when I read this in conjuction with your remark about my 'ignorance'!
As I've mentioned, I don't think 'race' is a useful concept but there are multiple examples of people who happen to have had the misfortune of being born into a different ethnic group to the rest of the nation being denied these things and more.
Here's three examples to get you started: Karen people in Burma, Tamils in Sri Lanka, Roma people in Romania. There are many, many more examples from contemporary times and recent history. I can't blame you for not knowing about them though, as you've said the world completely ignores so many of them!
One final question, have you ever even been to South Africa?
It is because many\most whites think like Duncan and reject race and race differences that I believe white nationalism is pursuing a false path by seeking change thru political means.
Duncan is wrong in that race and racial differences do exist and are important. To Duncan I would suggest that all the competitors in the 2012 100m Olympic Final will be of West African origin.
I will also state that people of African origin cannot build or even maintain a technological society anyway near that which Europeans can. Duncan, please offer examples if you think i am wrong.
Sarah why do nationalists wish to urge Duncan and those who feel like him to join us? Duncan is happy with his worldview and I wish him good luck - with one caveat...do not persecute nationalists and let us get on with building our own societies and preserving our kind.
And the latter is what nationalists should be doing.
Sadly, doing anything to help the whites would be portrayed as racism by politicians and the media.
Duncan there are many reasons why there is mass, and rapidly growing, poverty amongst the black population of South Africa, and part of it is certainly down to incompetence and corruption on the part of the current South African Government, however, that is an entirely different matter.
The main difference is that the poverty amongst the white Afrikaner population is not a knock on result of something else, it has been created through deliberate government policy. It is not an inconvenient side effect of bad government it is a deliberate and declared government policy, which the cojone deficient West pretend not to notice, or worse tacitly support.
When governments take action against other ethnic groups such as the Tamils or the Roma, there is, quite rightly, and international outcry, but when it is the white South African Afrikaner people there is total silence. The explanation for that has to be racism, the sort of racism you support.
As to the rest of your somewhat contradictory contribution (“there's no ethnic identity” “the Roma are a different ethnic group”) you may not subscribe to the notion of racial groups and ethnic identity, (you trendy, right on old thing you) but that is just further evidence of your deliberate ignorance. In terms of DNA there is less difference between a man an a woman than there is for instance between an African man and a European man, or an African man and an Asian man. Odd therefore that nobody suggests that sex is a social construct.
Furthermore the UN don't seem to agree with you either given the actions they have taken to protect the rights of indigenous people, unless the indigenous people are white of course.
Interestingly, from your perspective there can be no such thing as genocide, just mass murder, I wonder how you rationalise that with your politics?
"Duncan" seems a little heavy on the ad hominems and adds a couple of anecdotal examples, but almost zero opinions.
His few debating points lack clarity and precision, and they appear circuitous in direction that led me to "drop-off" points that left me scratching my head.
Ah! I just quickly scanned his defunct blog before ending this note....
O.K....we're at opposite ends of the political spectrum...understood now!
Sarah,
When governments take action against other ethnic groups such as the Tamils or the Roma, there is, quite rightly, and international outcry
I notice you missed out the Karen people, which was one of my three examples.
I've yet to see any significant international outcry about what happened in Sri Lanka. During the final stages of the civil war government forces killed many thousands of Tamil civilians and displaced around 300,000 people, most of who were detained in camps against their will for the next year.
I believe the UN released a statement saying they were 'troubled' by this. Other countries actually sent congratulations to the Sri Lankan government!
If you think this is equivalent to what has happened to Afrikaner people in South Africa you are severely mistaken.
A lack of international outcry (even if what you say is happening to Afrikaners is happening) is not unique or even, in my opinion, a significant departure from the norm.
As to the rest of your somewhat contradictory contribution (“there's no ethnic identity” “the Roma are a different ethnic group”)
I think the problem here is you basically don't understand what I'm saying and so don't understand my argument.
For example, you've put “there's no ethnic identity” in quotation marks which implies that's something I'd written and a view I subscribe to and then taken a view I do agree with to imply there's a contradiction there. I don't know whether you did this deliberately or this is simply because you don't understand what my view is.
What I wrote was: I don't subscribe to the notion of racial groups and ethnic identity as unchanging social facts.
This is why I have no problem describing genocide as genocide to clear up that one.
I would guess you view ethnic identity as unchanging social facts and that certain ethnic group inherently have certain characteristics so we can explain different outcomes at a macro and micro level (why African people cannot sustain a European style technological society - as remarked above) with reference to people's supposed race and culture.
I asked you straightforwardly whether you endorse that particular claim, answering this would make this discussion much easier, but you have not.
Until 50 years ago this was a common view. 100 years ago it was the dominant scientific view.
However, in the same way that it's no longer tenable to be sceptical of the possibilities of heavier than air flying machines this view has been discredited by volumes of research done on ethnicity and identity in the 20th century.
I think it makes a lot more sense to look at the way ethnic identity is created and changes over time. Anyway, that's a much longer story and this is already a lengthy comment.
Ethnic identities are not static but have a constantly changing meaning. What it means to be an Afrikaner in 2010 is totally different to what it meant in 1950, 1900, etc. This is why I think ideas of 'racial survival/preservation' are incoherent. What exactly are you preserving?
Furthermore the UN don't seem to agree with you either
Me and the UN don't agree on a lot of things!
As a once avid reader of blogger "Jayne Gardener" before she was either forced to, or voluntarily removed her truth-telling blog, she was often "assaulted" by Jewish attack groups during her latter days of blogging.
These little foot-soldiers would regularly manoeuver her to a defensive position by disputing the most innocuous debating point -- not to prove their thesis -- but with the sinister intention of depleting her energy with minutiae.
Reply to Duncan Part 1
Duncan said: “I notice you missed out the Karen people, which was one of my three examples.”
I also didn't mention the people of Tibet, the Chinese Uyghurs, the Ndebele (Matabele) or the Bushmen of Botswana – and, interestingly, neither did you. Like the Afrikaner their plight was also the result of deliberate government policy, however, does that mean I can't mention one group in isolation, would it okay with you for me to mention the Afrikaner provided I also list the Uyghurs, the Bahá'ís, The Kurds and the Falun Gong (or are religious minorities exempt from your packaging requirements?)
Or am I misunderstanding your strictures, is one not permitted to draw attention to one persecuted group whilstr others are being persecuted elsewhere? In that case, people had better shut up about Gaza hadn't they?
Duncan said: “I've yet to see any significant international outcry about what happened in Sri Lanka.”
Then I suggest Dunan my dear you were not looking. Parliament Square was almost impassible for months.
Duncan “During the final stages of the civil war government forces killed many thousands of Tamil civilians and displaced around 300,000 people, most of who were detained in camps against their will for the next year.”
That is around 300,000 less than the number of Afrikaners who have been displaced and now live in camps (see the report I linked to in the posting). They are effectively held against their will with no release date given they have nowhere to go, the South African government denies them the means of freeing themselves and no western country would dare take them, because people like you would accuse them of racism.
Duncan “I believe the UN released a statement saying they were 'troubled' by this. Other countries actually sent congratulations to the Sri Lankan government!”
The Metro obviously got it wrong with their headline “UN condemns Sri Lanka 'bloodbath'” last month then? http://www.metro.co.uk/news/world/655786-un-condemns-sri-lanka-bloodbath
Duncan “If you think this is equivalent to what has happened to Afrikaner people in South Africa you are severely mistaken.”
It is true that government forces have not yet opened fire on Afrikaner camps, however, with around 600,000 displaced and living in camps, whilst thousands have been murdered (over 3,100 Afrikaner farmer's alone) since 1994, many of whom were horribly tortured to death, that is very close to an equivalence, and if you were not in denial you would admit it.
Reply to Duncan Part 2
Duncan said: “A lack of international outcry (even if what you say is happening to Afrikaners is happening) is not unique or even, in my opinion, a significant departure from the norm.”
I regret I don't agree with you, I believe, that the lack of international reaction is a direct result of the colour combination of oppressor and oppressed. I don't think it is the norm, and even if it was I am not cynical enough to believe that is a reason to ignore what is happening.
Duncan: “I think the problem here is you basically don't understand what I'm saying and so don't understand my argument.”
I think the truth is Duncan you are the one who doesn't understand, it is you who will not allow any thought or concept to penetrate your box if it doesn't comply with your predetermined view of what is good and bad, right and wrong. Evil white victimised black.
Duncan: “What I wrote was: I don't subscribe to the notion of racial groups and ethnic identity as unchanging social facts.”
I don't think I misrepresented you at all Duncan, despite yore weasel words, I think you are a “race is a social construct” zealot. You speak as if what is currently happening in the Western World is some natural phenomenon rather than the result of a deliberate political policy intended to fundamentally alter the ethnic make up of the West and there is nothing natural about that.
I suspect that you care deeply about the persecution of ethnic minorities, except when the minority is white, and then you don't give a toss.
Duncan “I have no problem describing genocide as genocide to clear up that one.”
I strongly doubt that sweetheart, I suspect you would crawl up your own rectum rather than admit that what is happening in South Africa is genocide, but it is genocide, and that will eventually be acknowledged.
Duncan: “I would guess you view ethnic identity as unchanging social facts and that certain ethnic group inherently have certain characteristics so we can explain different outcomes at a macro and micro level (why African people cannot sustain a European style technological society - as remarked above) with reference to people's supposed race and culture.
I asked you straightforwardly whether you endorse that particular claim, answering this would make this discussion much easier, but you have not.”
Duncan, I said in my first response to you that I do not advocate racial supremacy, I believe in racial difference and the right of racial preservation. I have no idea why Africans have never achieved the technological and cultural advances which Europeans have, why when we were inventing the internal combustion engine, rail travel and flushing toilets most of Africa had not developed beyond the stone age. I do not know why there has never yet been an example of sustained and successful black government. It is self evidently a fact, but I can not explain it other than by the indisputable truth that there are distinct racial differences.
The evidence of those differences is so huge and manifest, that they render your assertion that there are no ethnic, racial and cultural differences worth preserving, nonsensical and indeed laughable.
Duncan “Me and the UN don't agree on a lot of things!”
That figures
It has been interesting corresponding with you but I will now take the wise advice of Anon 12:33, and bring this exchange to an end. You are welcome to express your view, but I regret that I do not have the time to respond to all comments.
Sarah
Over the past centuries Africans in their free spirited way, merely opted to reject such man made commercialized frippery as railways and flushing toilets.
In fact from my last visit to Durban it seems they still reject flushing toilets. Its rather like Detroit in that respect..... along with the violence, corruption murder and rape of course.
Well I think the Lady from Albion got the better of that exchange eh Duncan! What a shame he took that strong Scottish name when he writes such muddled, mistaken tripe.
The difference Ducan is quite simple.
In the UK white people at all varying layers of authority fall over themselves to help the black population.
In SA, blacks run the system and are happy to overtly discriminate against whites.
You cant see a difference?
In a free for all, Ive no doubt that whites in SA could (will!)turn things around. But how are they to do that. Any institution they set up will be co-opted by the state. Charities, co-ops you name it. Anything successful, too visible is going to have diversity mandated upon it.
You must have noticed that in the UK. Thats while we are still a majority, nominally in charge. Just imagine a state where we are a minority and out side the political system.
And needless to say anything more serious, armed rebellion, insurrection what have you is not going to be crushed by SA on its own. It would be done with the full backing of the outside world. Nothing is too violent to defeat 'racsits' and 'nazis' and 'white supremacists' after all.
I've yet to see any significant international outcry about what happened in Sri Lanka.
Yes, thats a shame.
From a WN perspective I fully support the Tamils in their quest for a homeland in Sri Lanka. I hope they dont hypocritically deny us the same.
If one trawls the net one will find many neo-con types dont support the Tamils because they are 'terrorists'. They seem to have been cast in the role of the Palestinians vs Israel.
This means they are the bad guys and if 'we' want to stand against terror the Tamils are supposed to be flushed down the toilet.
These little foot-soldiers would regularly manoeuver her to a defensive position by disputing the most innocuous debating point -- not to prove their thesis -- but with the sinister intention of depleting her energy with minutiae.
Jeez, tell me about it!
Ive recently begun debating the left/liberal/anti-racist orcs on Facebook.
Its great fun some of the time, shooting fish in a barrel. But unfortunately not many of our guys & girls want to play that game. Im often on my own trying beat down two or three nitpickers on a thread. While they signally fail to address the core issues.
Still feel its worth doing though. If only to remind them that they havent won yet.
Been to your dead blog Duncan...
When I started blogging there were few political blogs and even fewer left political blogs and even fewer left political blogs without rubbish politics.
Good to to see your tacit admission there, the one about your blog having rubbish politics. Nice one!
That is just awful! We need to get practical assistance to these people, like the blog that formed a charity for Serb victims of UCK terror gangs in Kosovo Province. Please tell us if you find anyone doing this or willing to assist.
Duncan said:
"What needs preserved? The Afrikaner people of today has little in common with the Afrikaner people of 50 years ago, even less in common than the people calling themselves Afrikaner 100 years and 150 years ago it's difficult to even talk of an 'Afrikaner' people at all. ...."
Your opinion regarding the Afrikaner people of today and 50, 100 to 150 years ago, is misleading and highly flawed as is invariably always the case in relation to Marxist Liberal ideology and the deliberately false interpretations AND misrepresentations of truth which its adherents are programmed into propagating and propagandanising on the global stage.
Correctly speaking, the Afrikaner people over time, have expanded AND adapted their original culture up to the present times which is a natural development every race has in common, but genetically (racially) speaking, they are still the same people.
Furthermore, culture may be fluent, but race is not.
Only, where members of distinct races have miscegenated with members of others, those members are then no longer fully one nor the other of the original two involved. They become, in fact, a separate race or races.
If you wish to help these people, do a search on "Helping Hands" in South Africa.
It appears that they are about the only people concerned enough to help.
Maybe you will want to add a facebook button to your blog. I just bookmarked this url, although I must make it by hand. Just my suggestion.
Any news about A defector's mystical disappearance?
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